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Re: memesis dsi
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Some comments on Joshua lateiner. I think the essay is very good with
regard to its contents, but I do have some critique.
> The Memetic Web May 25, 1996
> ================================================================
>
> by Joshua S. Lateiner
>
>
> Memetics is a tool that may help explain certain complex
> phenomena relating to the interaction of material systems and
> intangible information. There is much to be explained, and
> memetics has only quite recently been proposed as a method for
> examining the world. Therefore, it may be wise to avoid
> applying memetic analysis to the evolution of complex
> socio-political power structures
We are trying to do that anyway. But it is early , I agree.
[serious cutting]
> Conclusion: The Selfish Meme
> ----------------------------
>
> There may indeed be a fundamental difference between the
> process of genetic and memetic evolution. Human memetic hosts
> are capable of intentional, conscious action -- a factor that
> has far greater impact on the memetic evolutionary process than
> on the genetic process.
true
>
> The intentionality of human memetic hosts makes it more likely
> that a humans will re-transmit some memes much more widely than
> other, less interesting memes. The memetic host's desires are
> also shaped by memes, and it is this recursion of memetic
> influence that can create highly non-linear memetic effects
> like cultural fixation. This phenomenon may accelerate
> memetic evolution faster than expected.
Very good point, alhtough I do not understand the first sentence.
What you leave out though is that most memes are not transmitted
intentionally. Even when you look at an individual human, he will not
know why and how he picked up memes. This goes for ideas, ways of
thought, but more extremely for why you start to paint in a certian
way, and why you adopt norms and values.
When you start to look at groups of people intentionality becomes
even more of a problem. Because people want what other people want.
This can give non-linear patterns, where a fashion begins small, but
spreads like a virus, becoming more and more adopted in a part of
society.
Further people seem to belief what others say, just because they say
it, especially when they are a scientist, or expert, or becuase they
have status. Am I intentional when I belief you because you are a
sceintist?
So I think the intentionality point is only valid for a small part of
human memes.
> Selfish memes are like a recipe for a delicious cake; the meme
> for making the cake embeds itself in one's mind and can
> motivate action (e.g. the baking of a cake). If a memetic
> impulse is acted upon, the meme artifact (the cake) may
> help further propagate the original meme (the idea that baking
> delicious cakes is desirable) when other memetic hosts are
> exposed to the artifact.
In this case we have a nice example of a meme that will spread better
in certain circumstances: if we are hungry. Most memes have a
specific niche in the human mind. Like car-memes, of cloth memes.
>
> Selfish memes desire "realization" -- the process of causing a
> memetic host to carry out some action. Successful selfish
> memes often cause memetic hosts to realize actions that assist
> in the transmission of the memetic content.
This statement is too easy. What is a succesfull meme? One that
simply spreads?
Like in biological virus theory memes can spread quickly and die
quickly. Liek the ebola virus. Aids is more succesfull, because it is
slow in its effects. Although they both are spread, one is both a lot more faster in
spreading, and killing, and is less succesfull because of the fast
killing. .
So succes has more dimensions.
>
> The process by which Americans became fascinated with futurism,
> space exploration, and the idea of landing a man on the moon
> could be described in terms of a system of selfish memes that
> established a self-reinforcing pattern that lead to realization
> of the memetic concept (landing a man on the moon).
What is the self-reinforcing pattern here?
> Acting as a memetic catalyst, the Web medium promotes the
> creation of memetic feedback cycles more than other media due
> to its interactivity and immediacy. The Web efficiently
> transmits memes that can have the effect of heightening desires
> in a way that causes a host to seek out and re-transmit related
> memes.
If I say that people on the web are more stimulated in their ideas,
etc becuase they can find more other people that are interested [than
without the web] and that this makes them more enthausiastyic, is
that what you mean?
I would not call that feed-back but positive feedback. Feedback is
taken to be negative if not stated explicitly to be positive.
> The Web will likely serve to accelerate memetic evolution,
This is vague. When does memetic evolution accelarates? I can think
of a lot of ways, but each way will be differently affected by more
communication, more thinking about new encoutered memes because of
more communications, etc.[ where thinking can yield memetic mutation
or re-combination]. If this recombination [new memes] is srpead
faster we will have faster memetic evolution in one instance. But to
generally speed up, this will have to take place also with norms for
instance. I do not know if the net has any influence over that?
> but the usefulness of memetics transcends the Web. Feedback
> cycles, the interplay of art and science, and large scale
> social movements also lend themselves to memetic analysis.
> Along a similar vein, the greatly accelerated memetic evolution
> evident on the Web will have effects that transcend memetics as
> selfish memes seek realization in the creation of memetic
> artifacts.
I do not understand this.
>
> Certain memes have embedded themselves in our common culture,
> selfishly wishing to realized:
I find it wise to keep wishing between ""
many in our society are
> fascinated by the memes like world peace and using technology
> to literally or figuratively transcend the body [Lateiner,
> 1992]. It is likely that the Web will continue to play an
> increasing role in fueling our imagination and assisting in
> memetic realization.
>
> (C) 1996 Joshua S. Lateiner. All rights reserved, may not be
> reproduced in any form without explicit written permission.
> Limited re-print rights granted to Ars Electronica for
> inclusion in the Memesis conference.
>
Theories come and go, the frog stays [F. Jacob]
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